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The Geek 08-19-2007 10:04 AM

Crisis Update
 
It has been a couple of weeks since I have returned from vacation only to find our family business in a serious crisis. Since then, I stopped all sales of scripts from this site as I could not spend any time in development and support.

Things are not looking much better time wise for me. Meanwhile I am overly conscious about my customers inability to gain the recognised support and assistance from this site that I am known for. This has been a real challenge for me as I am very proud of what has been accomplished on this site, yet my family (and this crisis) must take priority.

A couple of weeks ago, I put some 'feelers' out to try and find help in support and development, however they haven't yielded any real viable results. At this stage I am forced to find some sort of solution that is better than permanently killing off my scripts.

The only solution I can see at this stage is to submit the latest builds to .org in hopes that the community will be able to pick up development and support of the projects. This of course brings up the dilemma of making all of my previously paid scripts free. While this is not very fair for those that may have paid for them, I believe that it is more fair then completely killing them off. At least .org may provide the needed support and growth that I can not currently provide.
I have emptied out my paypal account to issue refunds for everyone as far back as I can afford to (about the last month of purchases). I would go back further than that, however I think that a month is fair and the reality is that I now have only about 24 cents in my account!

Thank you all for your support. I have loved working on these scripts and I have loved the long term friendship that has evolved with so many of you. If I could have it any other way - I would... but my family must take priority just as your family must take priority for you.

Thank you for your understanding

Samuel

Darat 08-19-2007 11:48 AM

Not the best solution - which of course would have been for you to be able to continue your own scripts but it is a remarkably sensible solution.

I've (on behalf the Forum I help run) have paid for several of your products over the years and the fact that they will now be free does not alter the reason we paid for them in the first place i.e. they provided features we wanted to offer on our Forum.

All the best for the future and I hope you and your family resolve the crisis as quickly and with as little pain as possible.

Lizard King 08-19-2007 12:00 PM

You were one of my fav coders all around the vb community. I am sad because you will be away from the community but i understand you have your family and you need to focus on them. I hope everything will turn out t be good for you and your family in future.

Arrangements 08-19-2007 05:03 PM

The ones that you will be providing at Vb.org will they be licensed free? or are they going to have the Created by... Because it would be a great idea to keep the Licensed to be buyable from this site.

ragtek 08-19-2007 05:07 PM

hmm
i love(d) gars and so i'm very sad that you stop but i understand that family is more important then other things
so all the best for the future


ragtek

gothic 08-19-2007 05:08 PM

You were definitely one of my favourite coders, and I stood your corner on more than one occasion in other places. I am a grumpy miserable old fart, with little patience for anyone or anything, but I am still able to display respect where it is deserved, and you most definitely deserve it.
Many thanks for all your effort, and I pray for a happy solution for you and yours.

Really hoping that we'll see you again
Tony - (a.k.a Gothic. the dinosaur/ancient structure)

ProGaming 08-19-2007 06:11 PM

I was shocked to find my account credited from you sam. That is pretty much unheard of and show's how noble and trusting you are. I feel like I should turn around and send it back to you because you earned it.

I've been around managing communities for 5 years now. No coder I have came across could even come close to the quality of products and support you offered.

I really feel this is a dark day in the vbulletin community. While I've never talked to you I've always looked up to you because of knowledge of php.

I hope everything pans out for you and you are able to relax soon.

henrikhansen 08-19-2007 08:18 PM

First, all the best to you and your family.

Im afraid that .org will not be able to support and develop the scripts, we are talking about some of the largest and most advanced add-ons to vbulletin.
(development in lot of popular scripts on .org as suddenly stopped).
It might be the end to the scripts, in any case probably with the next major vbulletin upgrade.

Sam, are you sure the crisis could not be dealt with in fx 3-4 months, and then return? Of course, that would be a long time without support and development, but I have a feeling it might be the best to your customers and the amazing scripts if it by a small change could be possible. If you release the scripts on .org, it will in any case take quite some time before others will be able to deliver real development and support.

pingme 08-19-2007 08:38 PM

First and foremost best of luck for you and your family!

About the scripts, I would also suggest not to release your scripts so early may be you can hold them on with you for couple of months and then see if you can return back to scripts if not then you can release them.

this is just a suggestion :)

Ohiosweetheart 08-19-2007 08:50 PM

I'm so so sorry to hear this Sam. Truthfully, I fear that your scripts will die at .org, as I can't think of anyone who could support your scripts accurately, as they are so much more advanced than what is released there.

Have you given any thought to approaching the developers at .com and possibly selling to them?? I'm very serious, really. Please think about it.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and yours.

mhc1576 08-19-2007 08:53 PM

I agree with henrikhansen.
Take your time and let us se what's up a few months from now.

Webmist 08-19-2007 09:58 PM

I too agree with henrikhansen.

I would hate to see your scripts suffer due to lack of support. I honestly think the community here can help each other until such time you can make a commitment to return.

My prayers and support go to you and your.

nexia 08-19-2007 10:25 PM

We, at nexialys.net, are ready to overtake Samuel's work, for the time he is not available... and if he is not to be back on business, we'd be ok to support it for lifetime.

Sam is informed of our suggestion, maybe this would help his business choices here... because choosing to disable the entire business is the wrong way to go... we can handle his business, and provide support, releases, updates and upgrades in the next months or years... and Samuel would be welcome to join back in due time...

vB.org or any other free-for-all websites would be a crash for the productline...

Mythotical 08-19-2007 11:00 PM

First off, sorry that your crisis has not been taken care of, good luck to you and your family.

Secondly, nexia has a good idea there but I hate to act as tho I have an ego, but I am the reason for GM coming back up and do not wish to lose my status as developer for it nor supporter, hence I have asked Sam to allow me to fully support and develop GM as well as GLIC seeing as how GLIC is no where near ready, I have been coding on it during my off times from work to get a more beta ready version.

This thread I think should not be to gloat or bring up ideas but if you have an idea then I say post it here, that way Sam doesn't have a million PM's/Email's to go through and he can just read one thread.

Sam, if you go with Nexia's idea, I wish to state that I refuse to back off the project and that I will ask both of you to make sure I'm included on the package so that I may continue my work even though haven't been able to get a new release out since the last bug fixes but all in all, Sam, get your crisis taken care of, take care of this site and lets see what solution for both can come about.

Cheers mate
Steve

nexia 08-19-2007 11:29 PM

... actually Mythotical, i would take you in the team if things go well.. lol

i'm not here to takeover in the wrong way, but to support the situation... i would have to hire 2 or 3 guys up there to make the support for the whole suite of scripts, so this is not to happen in a shot and it is not to be done only by me... i'm the lead of my project, i'm the only one with a voice, but we (were 3 since last week-end's loss) are working for much more projects... Geek's stuff would be enhancements but also more trouble... we do not make a suggestion just for the pleasure of it.

Mythotical 08-20-2007 12:24 AM

I know what you meant, I just want to make sure my efforts will continue no matter what happens to the scripts.

ProGaming 08-20-2007 01:20 AM

I honestly feel your scripts are worth selling at the current price without any official support. They are very powerful and well written for there cost imo.

Give it a couple weeks before you decide. Whatever you do don't give them away.

trana 08-20-2007 02:21 AM

Please don't do this. Take time to deal with your family issues and then evaluate whether or not you can continue to develop these scripts. This sounds like a very rash decision for all of the work you have invested in these modules.

I cannot imagine these hacks going any further without you at the helm. I hope you take as much time as you need for your personal issues and then examine this decision when other items are less pressing.

I think most of the people here who have watched these scripts evolve would agree with me.

Cole 08-20-2007 04:39 AM

I very much hope that you can resolve things. :)

I was an original beta tester for GARS, so I have been here a while (not too many posts though). I think you should lower prices for the products for now, because updates and support will not be official, and then you can raise them and the like when you return.

garg 08-20-2007 08:00 AM

Best of luck to you and I hope everything can be resolved. Your scripts are awesome and the support you provided was exceptional.

Ramses 08-20-2007 10:22 AM

Sad to hear this Sam, maybe it would be a good idea to sell or give the scripts for free into the hands of brian from vbadvanced, he's beside of you one of the best vbulletin coder with great support. I'm sure this would be the best solution for all of us.

nexia 08-20-2007 10:48 AM

instead of suggesting to give the scripts to someone who is not even involved here, why don't you ask the principal person ?!... did you ask Brian first?!

don't go to paths you can't handle yourself... do not make suggestions just to make suggestions, you are helping nobody.

Brian is too musy with his new products... he can't invest time just because he is a great coder...

do not ask for SirAdrian either... (the name is already floating around).. i asked him myself, as a friend, and he is not involved right now...

Steigeisen 08-20-2007 12:40 PM

Sorry to hear that the crisis has not changed much. I truly hope it'll get better very soon, family before business, your choice is absolutely right.

I hate to see though your great projects going to nirvana. I also hate seeing them given away for free. I of course checked my paypal account as I just purchased a month ago (July 18th) and my account has not been credited. Which in a way I find o.k. although it is a bit disturbing having just missed it for a day or two.

The fact that you refunded at all I find very noble and also businesslike. As when I purchased I did not only purchase the license, I also purchased 1 year of updates, which of course now there won't be any. Since you already refunded everyone as far back as possible it doesn't matter anymore, but to refund pro rata temporis as far back instead of refunding in full might have been something to think about. But maybe you did that anyway.

I agree with others that say that .org will not be much of a support. Can't you find anyone who will take over this site and give support until you come back or if that's not possilbe keep the site? Your stuff is so great it shouldn't be given away for free. If someone else is capable of updating and supporting, it might be interesting for him/her knowing they wouldn't have to do it for free.

Wish you all the best and still hope you'll be back in the near future.

Thanks for everything
Greets
Steigi

henrikhansen 08-20-2007 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohiosweetheart (Post 21208)
Have you given any thought to approaching the developers at .com and possibly selling to them?? I'm very serious, really. Please think about it.

If I were vbulletin, I would seriously consider this chance to give vbulletin some features and make it more competitive again. Hey, with the slow speed they are making the blog add-on, especially GARS and GAZ would really make a quick step forward and improve custumer satisfaction a lot, benefiting us all.

But, you have to be realistic. They, or others, cannot decide on issues like this in a couple of weeks. Interested parties have to consider, check code for performance issues, consider changes needed before it can be official vb-code etc.

It takes time, and I find it too hasty to release to .org after a couple of weeks.
Give Sam the time to settle family business and/or have a dialogue with others interested in developing the scripts in future.

Lizard King 08-20-2007 03:03 PM

Sam ,

I also will not like you to give the programs free of charge to vb.org. I will also choose a third party to take over the projects or wait for you to return. nexialys is a good coder and i can also offer my help just to have these hacks. My board is based on Gars so i don't want to trust egomaniac people at vb.org. Or wait for couple moınth till you solve the crisis issue and then return back.

nexia 08-20-2007 03:05 PM

"offer my help" i read a typo here!... Lizard King, when you work, it is not help, it is TALENT...

gothic 08-20-2007 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizard King (Post 21228)
Sam ,

I also will not like you to give the programs free of charge to vb.org. I will also choose a third party to take over the projects or wait for you to return. nexialys is a good coder and i can also offer my help just to have these hacks. My board is based on Gars so i don't want to trust egomaniac people at vb.org. Or wait for couple moınth till you solve the crisis issue and then return back.

I have to agree with you here Mr. Lizard.
Our main board is also based around GARS and feel the scripts would be wasted if passed over to .org.
I get the impression that perhaps a majority of folk here would be more than willing to bide their time and wait to see how things pan out with you Sam, even if that means months rather than weeks.

p.s. As I have already made it clear, although I am NOT a coder, I would be more than willing to lend a hand here, if needed, I have a plethora of experience as servermeister.

mac27 08-20-2007 05:06 PM

Yes as mentioned above take your time.. FAMILY always comes first.

I do have a question though for nexia. IF The Geek did hand over his scripts to you, would you offer them for free? Reason I ask I for one would not pay to be a member of a forum then have to turn around and pay for the scripts.

I am just curious.

Thanks

Tigratrus 08-20-2007 05:21 PM

As above, so with us.

We both totally agree that family has to come before anything else, hands down. I tend to agree that making your products available for free on .org wouldn't likely solve support issues, it's quite likely to *create* a lot of support issues as folks jump into things without the safety net that you provide here. ::shrug::

if *Jelsoft* was willing to take on the support I think everyone would be happy with that ;-), but other than that I think we'd rather see what members here can do as a community and hope that one day things will work out so that you can return and have something tangible to return *to*.

::shrug::

In any case, we wish you and your family the best possible outcome to your current situation. If there's anything we can do as a community please let us know...

James and Susan

nexia 08-20-2007 05:36 PM

@mac27... paying to access my site... not related to the geek stuff... the 10$ membership for my site is for freely available stuff in a specific section of it, not the whole thing. my paid scripts are in a different section, for a good reason. and adding the Geek stuff would make a new section with the exact same costs as the actual grades... changes may occur IF a lot of facts come to play with the stats...

giving the scripts to Jelsoft would mean to give them for free, and i'm sure it is not good. they ahve been proven stupid for a lot of reasons... that's why Samuel was not releasing his own stuff on vb.org lately...

vb.org guys are not supporting coders work, and they will never do.. they are always arguying that this is not the goal of the site, so why would they change today... and Jelsoft would already buy the Geek stuff if they'd be interested.. they bought a lot of codes lately, but never came here from what i know... so they will not be interested even if it's a crisis..they do not care about personal crisis...

The Geek 08-20-2007 07:01 PM

Wow. You guys are pretty freaking cool. I almost forgot why I loved coding these scripts so much :)

Ill need to think about the options on the table for a few. I suppose I am open to the concept of a management and development group and I have had several offers from various people that are very much worth considering.

My priority with the scripts are first and foremost the customers that paid for them, and secondly making sure that they have as much of a life in the future as possible. Simply passing the gauntlet over to other commercial devs or bringing in commercial devs potentially raises as many problems as it could solve, however the geeks have spoken loud and clear and obviously prefer this path. Therefore Ill mull it around and speak to a few devs that have offered to try and come up with a solution for you all.

I suppose my first step is to see if a management and dev team can be put together to keep things here (for simplicity and legacy reasons). If that can't be done Ill investigate transferring over development elsewhere. If not, its to .org they go.

Hang fire all. I just need time to consider and contact some people.

re: Brian... he needs to focus on his current offerings and TBH I generally get no response to my PMs. Not sure what the problem is there.

@Steig, there will always be a date that was 'just missed'. Hope you understand.

@all, thanks for your understanding. This has been a really difficult time. Ill do everything I can to make sure your investment in my scripts see you right :)

ProGaming 08-20-2007 07:40 PM

Nexia, It would be a privilege for Geek to give you his scripts and I don't feel you deserve them for being so abrasive in this thread.

You almost sound like an ambulance chaser in this thread. Not a professional I would want to buy scripts from.

Geek don't just do what's best for us, keep yourself in mind. If you have to keep them off the helf for a couple months do it.

You own the rights to some pretty jewel's around here that a lot of coder's would love to own. Don't throw them away or pass them into the wrong hands is all I am saying.

I'm a nobody to you, but I have nothing to lose either way so take it for what it's worth.

smacklan 08-20-2007 10:29 PM

I will be keeping you and yours in my thoughts and prayers Sam...I have always thought of you as the "coolest" coder on the vb scene for a wide variety of reasons (your sense of humor for one...my kids and I still get a kick out of cranking up the "pull my finger" link you posted on the org long ago haha!). Whatever you decide, I know it will be the right decision for you and all of us in Geekland...just know we care about you and want the best for you :)

Mythotical 08-21-2007 12:26 AM

Sam, whatever you decide I'm sure we will all be happy. Give my best to your family and I give my best to you. You ever need anything, just let me know.

All: The way I see it, Sam is pretty set on what he wants to do, he is putting his family first hence the reason for finding a reasonable solution to development of the scripts instead of just taking them down for a few months causing more members that sign up and ask the same question "When will such and such be available?" I have to agree with Sam whole heartedly about some how getting a support and dev team together for the scripts here.

mpdev 08-21-2007 12:52 AM

Hey, Geek! Z just told me about your post - hoping all is well with you, sending positive thoughts and prayers your way.

Michael
PhotoPost.Com

kidmercury 08-21-2007 02:45 AM

you're in a league of your own, geek. you rock. your contributions added a ton of value for the vbulletin community.

best wishes for you and your family.

acers 08-21-2007 04:07 AM

Best wishes to you geek. I hope your problems get sorted out soon.

However i will support what someone else said before me in an earlier page. If you think that the issue you are facing can be resolved in times to come(3-4 months) then keep the control of scripts with you. No updates is better than no script at all. Yours are truly superb products and i would hate to see them go.

However, family comes first so decide based on that!

smo 08-21-2007 04:31 AM

Geek, I still get a kick out of some of the language that is in your scripts. I havent met many coders that throw the funny, random things into the actual code. You make it fun to read this stuff!!!

Anyhow, I hope that your issues can be resolved and get back to a hobby of yours. (this) I make a it goal to visit this place daily just to see what youre up to.

let us know if your in need of any advice or just want to vent to your "virtual friends"
peace, geoff

tormodg 08-21-2007 11:31 AM

Good luck my friend, thanks for your excellent scripts and I look forward to seeing you back eventually. :) Take care of your own, Real Life *always* comes first.

ProGaming 08-21-2007 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smo (Post 21244)
Geek, I still get a kick out of some of the language that is in your scripts. I havent met many coders that throw the funny, random things into the actual code. You make it fun to read this stuff!!!


"Though not my type, I saved it anyway" in gars cracks me up every time.


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